Ainscough operators to strike

Crane lads
Strike off

Crane lads
Out again Saturday Sunday and Monday

Crane lads
Yes we are striking today

Ordinary Bloke
Hi there lads, i just want to give my support on taking this action (you are striking today) and wish you all the best, something has to be done!

Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!

Guido. I liked you much more in "cars"

Not sure what " spys" are if you are going to try and be smart you may want to check your spelling "spies" LOL

Not sure what the relevance of my financial position to you is but my opinion does not change because I was lucky enough to win the lotto.

I did enough time sheets over the years to know that crane operators usually can't spell. what crane do you operate Guido lol lol

Crane lads
Yes sometimes we do have a kip in cab maybe because we have been traveling all night to get to a site. And working well over 16hrs.

Reality Check you are perhaps something of a bully yourself? You are also a bit slow off the mark too as Buttercup never said you must be an Ainscough spy he said an Oaktree implant/spy and they probably do have offices in California.

Not that spys need to work from an office and I am no so sure about California or the lotto.

A reality check needed maybe?

Then you would be wrong again. He would be the second. The first employee would be the owner

You have proved my point thank you

Ordinary Bloke
When starting up a new crane hire company, who do you employ first, the Crane Operator or the Office Staff ?

I think it's the Crane Operator.

Ordinary bloke. I can remember believe me back to when I worked for Ainscough and I know it's not the same company now.

However you make good points but most crane operators would not be happy with whatever they got. Unfortunately the bad ones spoil it for the good ones.

The reality is that there are too many cranes in the uk and too many getting purchased every year.

Until this changes rates and everything else will never go up. Operators striking is not the answer. Be careful what you wish for

Ordinary Bloke
Calm down lads,

with the greatest respect Reaity Check, obviously i don't know how long ago you came into money, but i'm sure it's not too long ago to remember what it was like before you had the money, and what you had to Do and the conditions you were made to work under.
You should always remember where your roots lie !

Over the last 10 to 20 years i have witnessed our terms and conditions deteriorate, the price of house's have rocketed, your groceries, car
utility bill's, schools, our wages have either stagnated or have dropped.

It's not up to the driver's to look for work, the driver's are only there to do there job as weather and safe conditions will allow. It's not up to the driver's to educate the customer, either the sale's man could mention what is required or it's left up to the customer to train his/her own personnel, but low and behold as the Crane personnel are so helpful they go out of their way and take on that RESPONSIBILITY as well, for no extra cash, and in certain occasion's this could add up to a considerable amount of money !!

I just want the Ainscough management to acknowledge there is a lot more going on than the driver's turning up to the job and doing nothing, they are the people who can either keep the customer coming back or going else where.

Management should take it in turn and take a week going around with the work force then come to a decision about their own worth and the driver's as well.

Firstly. Buttercup you are as dillusional as everyone else last time I looked Ainscough don't have offices in California to how can I be a spy !!!, Martin James and Brendan paid less than the current 11.76 and hire rates have not got higher so why do you think they should be paid more ??, get in the real world crane operators mainly do not have degrees and do spend a lot of time asleep in the cab. That's what constitutes lazy and thick if they think they deserve a rise just because a MD gets one.

It's all about economics. I have an idea lets up the hourly rate to 25.00 per hour then fast forward 12 months. Oh no 400 operators out of work. GOOD JOB BUTTERCUP!!

Actual Reality Check
Let's cut all the banter and get down to the facts..

operators are currently paid a base rate of £11.78

The bonus offered is based on a targeted operational profit separated by individual depots and by the companies own admission was only achieved by 10 out of 27 depots last year and would have been worth around £600 for an operator earning £40000pa .

Operators are expected to get themselves to a sited crane using their personal transport for upto 3 hours and 80 miles per day for less than the national minimum wage and the HMRC guidance of 45p per mile.
Currently a payment of £16 ( subjected to tax ) is made to cover the 80 miles, and £10.60 ( also subject to tax ) to cover the 3 hours.
The company have offered to pay 40p for the first 40 miles then 20p for the remaining 40 miles

So that clarifies the companies offer.

Secondly the company are and have actively seeked to recruit zero hour employees, most recently being the redundant operators paid off in December that are now being approached to rejoin, under terms that don't pay them for travel time, site inductions, aborted operations due to weather or site conditions.

Zero hour contracts go firmly in the face of the companies policy of safety before profit as these employees are actively encouraged by their terms of employment to 'get the job done' or they won't receive any form of payment for the hours they have worked.
Further it is recognised by many of the safety critical industries that these terms of employment do not allow the employers to monitor daily rest and number of hours worked.
We don't let a LGV driver back behind the wheel without 9 hours rest BUT we're happy to allow the crane operator to carry a man basket over a construction site that has been working 16 hours. Double standards operating in the same company at the same location on the same day.

yes we could leave an industry to work elsewhere but why do the employees have to leave, why cant the management / share holders not invest in the people that represent them and share the benefits to all not just the selected few.

I've been watching with interest and now feel the need to contribute. Firstly, Reality Check is probably an Oaktree implant/spy and if not he is clearly way off the mark and out of touch. One thing I do not like is his reference to crane ops as 'thick' and 'lazy' - this is doing nothing other than fuelling this debate in a negative and derogatory manner! They are neither in my book and deserve utmost respect for the difficult job they do.
Secondly, a company is only as good as it's MD and senior management team and therein lies the problem. Robin Richardson doesn't give a damn about 'the people' or how they are treated. This is the first time in the history of the company where strike action has come to fruition. Martin Ainscough and Neil Partridge understood and appreciated the efforts of the 'whole team' and rewarded them accordingly and in return they had loyalty, commitment and support from EVERYONE! Let's not ever forget that without them and the history of the company Richardson would not have his job. He doesn't appreciate it, he has no respect or time for the past, least of all Martin. This is the problem and whether or not the pay offer for the operators is seen to be reasonable or otherwise is not necessarily the whole of the problem. The problem is Richardson - nobody likes him! And this goes industry wide. Other crane hire firms don't want to rehire to Ainscough because they no longer want to help. Why? Because Richardson goes in there with his arrogant and bullish attitude and they simply don't like it.
There has been reference to the operators being 'greedy' - look to the past! Operators have been encouraged by crane owners to book the hours - e.g. two jobs done in one day book two lots of 8 hrs (16 hrs total) even if only worked 8 hrs because the company received payment for two x 8 hrs from the customer. Cranes go out on 8/10hr minimums so why not pass that on to the operator? Greed works both ways - is it any surprise the ops are hacked off?
In summary there seems to be massive discontent within Ainscough and it's not going to just blow over. Crane hire and Corporate World are not made for each other. It just doesn't work. Look at the competition and what is happening to market share? Look at the staff turnover within Ainscough and the disappearance of all the expertise, know-how and experience. All going to the competition. Good luck Ainscough, Good luck Richardson and your 600 by 2020!

Crane lads
Sorry just to be clear that's 40p per hour

Crane lads
Look at the end of the day all the ainscough crane drivers sales reps managers all the way up to the MD don't want this to drag on and on. We all know the bosses are reading this so let's all the ainscough people including management put some surgestions in the pot and see what happens. Let's work in real money not % . I personley settle for stop zero hrs contract if you work away from home be on a 10hr day 45p per mile instead of the 20 proposed by ainscough for using my own car as recommended by HMRC and 40p the 1st year and 40p the next 2nd anyone else going to contribute to this please only be realistic.

Crane lads
Yes you are right about the bonus its mostly the sales reps. What Thay do is price a job up say on a blue book site and say to the customer I've nocked the drivers site rate and bonus off to make it cheaper for you.the customer would of already budgeted for the extra payments. For the people who don't know what a blue book is you get extra payments for working in a dangerous environment like power stations petrol refineries it makes you're wages up to £16ph. Now all the rest of the workers on the site is getting the blue book payments apart from the driver. The sales reps gets his bonus so he is happy. Can I just add our office is OK at backing us up Thay do say try you're best but you say it can't be done in a safe way Thay do back us up.

Oh ghost. Why do you have to be so angry lol

Crawl back under your poor rock

ghost
Oh dear Reality Check - you're so far off the mark you're in the next country - literally! You obviously have a selective memory - I said earlier that your views on this are entirely theoretical - and you've proved me right. Your grasp of the British crane industry is about as relevant as Bob the Builder's portrayal of the construction industry - fantasy. I know far more about basic economics than you realise and I know that no one person or group of people holds, by their efforts, the future prosperity of a company in their hands. Any large company depends on a collective effort to make it succeed and that's not a Labour way of thinking - perish the thought! It's sound business sense. I'm not in anyway directly involved in the crane industry but I've heard what goes on and seen it backed up by certain people's actions. As for your sympathy, I dare say that, judging by your comments berating the crane operators on here, your sympathy has about as much Kudos as Jeremy Corbyn's Trident policy. The crane industry is just like every other business - there's good guys and the occasional bad guy - personally, I've never had a problem with them - far from it in fact - but your comments carry about as much weight as those of Vladimir Putin on world peace. Until someone comes forward with the truth about what's happening within Ainscough, then your comments as an outsider mean nothing - I did think you were like a stopped clock - wrong 99.9% of the time but just once and for a whole minute, you could be right - but it looks like I'm wrong on that count!

Ordinary Bloke
Hi Crane Lads, i just want everyone to know the TRUTH !

What i talked about in my last comment was and is the TRUTH, and has been going on for 30 years and nobody gives a sh***.

The only winners are the customers and the management, especially the Directors as they get a production bonus for forcing the driver's to do the job as an Overload or safety issues.

If the Crane Operator say's anything, as "Not Safe or it's the wrong crane, the office's answer is usually, so and so did it last time, or they make you out to be some sort of substandard human being, very demoralising, absolutely no back up from the office, for as if the office were to get involved, that would end up hurting their bonus, they are not interested and under qualified.

Crane lads
Come on people we are all adults not children. Let's stop the name calling or you will be put on naughty step.

Ordinary Bloke
Reality Check, you mention the sales personnel, vital role. But when you have sales persons out there telling lies to the customer, next thing the Operator arrives onto the site with a 90 tonne crane, he goes in, introduces himself and made aware of the paperwork, he/she looks down the paperwork only to see that it is a 120 tonne hire.
You speak up and explain the situation, then the hirer says, "it will be alright".
You then inform your depot, they say, "we don't have any more cranes around this area, you Will have to do your best.
Now doing your best means, in the world of crane operators, you will have to overload the crane or there will be repercussions!!!
It is supposed to be the other way around, the crane hire company are supposed to if they don't have a 120 tonne crane, get one that's bigger not smaller, that's against the law.

The hire desk staff just do what they are told. It's the Sales Staff in cahoot's with senior management who take these decisions.

Now nobody should be put in that position, especially for the wages that we are payed.

They are putting the company in the line of fire for a Criminal Fraud investigation, and probably an HSE investigation putting thier workers in an unsafe position.

And I bet Ghost votes. "Labour". Lol. Oh and probably a scouser

I was actually starting to have some sympathy after ordinary blokes post. But then Ghost comes along to burst the bubble and speak like an idiot.

It's people like Ghost who are the reason why operators are not paid more. Pay peanuts get monkeys !!!

Ghost is a monkey !!! You get me lol

Ghost. You at that behind the times you must actually be a ghost. I've forgot more about cranes than you know. You are obviously a crane operator because you think and talk like an uneducated individual.

Winning the lotto is irrelevant but what isn't is basic economics the problem is that you operators think you are the most important people in a crane company and that is not true.

Without the cash of the people running the company there wouldn't be depots, cranes, fuel oh and most importantly YOU!!

Operators think that they earn the money that pays the owners and office staff wages when it's completely the other way around. The salespeople work very hard to actually get work so that you can actually have a job and it takes one mistake to lose the client and that's usually the operator because they have the same mentality as you !

Stop sounding like the world owes you a living as I said before if you think that you are not getting paid enough go and do something else and stop whining.

If your not dead from the neck up Ghost like your comments suggest

Ordinary Bloke
Thank's for that ghost.

I would class myself as old school and just want, maybe to get across the wrong's to which, not just Ainscough but all of the crane hire companies have taking from their employees as they are not intelligent enough to work out a real deal with their clients.

ghost
Ignore Reality check Ordinary Bloke - he seems to think reality is winning the lottery and moving to America. He's too detached from the real crane world and seems to overdose on bowls of stupid and midday sun.

Ordinary Bloke
"Reality Check", if i implied that the driver's should get the same as one of the directors, i apologise for my lack of communication.

What i meant was, if the management could, and even one of them could receive a bonus of £150,000 , isn't like giving the Ainscough workforce a kick in the teeth, especially after they took a pay cut to help the company, they do all the unsociable hours, may as well pay the company for the "Privileged" to work for Ainscough.

All i was trying to say if its good enough for "the One" you could do a reasonable break down of the money and share with the Whole Workforce.

If the "one" is worth such a bonus , surely the company would be prospering a lot more and everybody would be having a share.

Big Jib
I think the summarisation from painful truth is both accurate and to the point. There are a lot of factors at play here, not just the hourly rate. I used to work for Ainscough. Richardson has one objective, to grow profit. This can be done either from revenue growth (top line) or by cutting costs so they filter down to bottom line. The biggest costs to Ainscough (by an absolute mile) are operators wages (40% of overall turnover). Richardson has been desperate to get this percentage well below 40% - just imagine how good he would look to the financial guys who own the business if he could do so.

Had he been able to significantly grow the business, then this would have been achieved without cutting costs, however he has failed to do so due to several factors such as losing good contracts (e.g. Exxon), failing to win new business (he's replaced experienced crane people with inexperienced out and out sales people, who are completely out of their depth). I could go on for hours, but you get my drift.

Now he's got bother. He needs to cut costs, but instead is stuck with a workforce he fails to understand. He's tried to bully them by threatening redundancies if they don't accept his offer. He chooses to ignore the history of the guys accepting pay cuts in the past, on the premise they would be looked after when times were better. He has no man management skills (trust me I know).

However, he needs to look strong to the only people he cares about impressing - his paymasters.

This is why the company now stands where it is, teetering on the verge of mass strikes. Nobody wins. Not the company, nor the workforce, or the customer.

I take back the last statement, Richardson probably wins, he's already filled his boots and will walk away with a tidy handshake. Good luck ACH employees, I have an inkling you'll need it.

Crane lads
The reason I am saying someone will get killed is because say a ap turned up on site he is on zero hours contract and the weather/ ground conditions/ site not right. He is going to try and get the crane driver to do the job like saying stuff like come on mate I need to feed my kids. The driver is going to feel a right shit if he don't do it so he does it and crane topples over killing the ap. all because the ap doesn't get paid if the job doesn't get done. So that's one dead ap and one crane driver in prison all because of zero hours.

Crane lads
No one is asking for the same pay rise as the MD. just a bit more than 20 odd pence and better conditions and to stop the zero hours contracts.before someone gets killed.

Crane lads
No one is asking for the same pay rise as the MD. just a bit more than 20 odd pence and better conditions and to stop the zero hours contracts.before someone gets killed.

So, what seemed to start out as a greed issue among crane operators is now beginning to be seen in a different light amongst some of the people posting here.
This issue has not just come about since Vertikal posted the news feed, it's been advancing for at least 18 months. Management structure demoralised, operator incentives being cut, a broken promise to give back a decent rate for, obviously, for people who have operated the cranes, a bloody hard day's work.
I sympathise with the operators, having worked alongside a lot of the Ainscough lads. Even though I now work for one of their competitors, I can honestly say that the vast majority are conscientious, hard working and safety orientated, and should be commended for that, not castigated for asking for a decent rate for a day's work.
But, underlying in all this, is the apparent threat of redundancies. Yes, times are still hard in the industry, and the only beneficiaries in all this are the end user, who are allowed to continually force the crane companies into a dog eat dog situation.
And what of the rumors of enforced zero hour contracts on the horizon?? No mention from Vertikal in regards to this, but the vast majority of people within the industry already know of operators being asked back on these contracts after being made redundant??

On a lighter note, Big Jib, I can concur that your opinion of Mr Richards is accurate. I had the pleasure of his company on a site for 25 minutes on my own in an office, and after berating him in regards to higher management failings, I congratulated him on the professionalism of his operators, and that they were a credit to their company. You know what he did?? He berated a heavy crane operator in the car park for not reverse parking his van!! Way to build up a strong loyal fan base within the workforce, Kudos

Ordinary bloke. You really are dillusional if you think that directors will give the same pay increase to operators as themselves.

Directors and operators are totally different jobs and therefore pay will always be different

I presume you are a crane operator because you certainly think like one, remember there is no business without operators but equally there is no operators without management

Ainscough have always called the cranes units. Martin James and Brendan always did.

I don't know the owners but don't know if that's relevant

Big Jib
You guys need to understand, Richardson is something else. Not in the least bit interested in the industry (calls the cranes units), no experience of operated plant, and has no idea how to talk to the workforce (I've seen this with my own eyes).Couldn't care less where the company will be in 5 years, just as long as he's made a quick buck for the VC's and therefore himself. Arrogance personified.

Ordinary Bloke
What's good for the goose is supposed to be good for the gander.

So it's ok for the managerial personnel to take, then preech to the workforce about wanting just a small token of appreciation, i feel sick !

Crane lads
Reality Check
one director decided he has done a great job and give himself a small pay rise of £150.000 don't get me wrong good luck to him. But at least give the workforce a decent rise to. Because let's face it if it wasn't for the dedication of his workforce he wouldn't get the rise its us who work all hours god sends getting up at 1 or 2 O'Clock in the morning travel between 1 and up to 12hrs then do a full shift then travel to next job.

Ordinary Bloke
At last we have arrived at the problem, the people who own and the managers who manage have been hacking the actual hire rate they are payed so, because they are incapable of talking to other crane hire companies the operator has to take up the slack, the CEO's Directors, Managers of the crane hire companies take a leaf out of the Ainscough Crane Operators book and go and explain to your customers what the situation is, instead of fleecing the Operators again.

The race to the bottom has to stop, as it will be the comapny management who would have to take responsibility for any short comings.

Did Ainscough Directors and management take a pay cut as and when the Crane Operators did ?

Crane lads
Reality Check
That's why I use experienced operator. The hole industry needs a Chang.

Crane lads. Maybe you want to speak with vertikal because that isn't what they are reporting above.

I agree with the mileage and I agree that operators should be a good wage but I still don't agree with the statement of highly skilled.

My issue is that striking will not solve this issue, and I don't agree that getting paid more makes you safer.

Until the UK crane industry stands up and increases rates by at least 50% nothing can and will change

Crane lads
Reality Check I am a experienced operator same as you. all we are asking for is a bit more on rate and if we work away from home 10hrs a day
because if you're on 8hrs you are using you're own money to support yourself. We haven't asked for any of the so called bonus. And offering us after traveling 20 miles
20p per mile to use our own car to go to site is taking the Micky wouldn't you agree seeing the tax man allows you up to 45p.

Crane lads
Reality Check I am a experienced operator same as you. all we are asking for is a bit more on rate and if we work away from home 10hrs a day
because if you're on 8hrs you are using you're own money to support yourself. We haven't asked for any of the so called bonus. And offering us after traveling 20 miles
20p per mile to use our own car to go to site is taking the Micky wouldn't you agree seeing the tax man allows you up to 45p.

Crane lads

Yes. Operated cranes upto LTM1250 from iron fairy, then been depot manager and director so my experience as I have said numerous times is on both sides of the fence.

Whilst I appreciate its an important job do are a lot of other jobs but that does not mean they are highly skilled. In a hospital the person who moves patients around in their bed is a very important and responsible job if they are going for life or death surgery but you would not regard that as highly skilled.

Highly skilled and responsible are two very different things. The argument isn't if operators should be paid more its if any crane company can actually afford it. Basic economics and more intelligent people would actually realize if you get paid more than the industry can afford eventually the company will fail and you will be getting paid nothing

Crane operators need to stop being so thick and look at crane companies borrowings, gearing and actual profit margins that would tell them that they are probably already getting more than the industry can afford.

Eric L
Not taking sides here, but the point about crane operators being highly skilled, I think the point is more importantly their responsibility. These people are working with very expensive equipment,and doing a job that has grave consequence if an error is made. People can easily be killed. It can be a stressful job, no one can deny that can they?
That level of responsibility is normally rewarded in one's salary.

Well said Eric L as an outside person not from britain it looks like many companies do not understand how important a crane operator is when he is sitting in his cabin. a mistake end with him losing his life as well as others he should be treated like the captain of a plane or a ship while he is controlling his machine and have the a veto over anything to do with the lift

Eric L
Not taking sides here, but the point about crane operators being highly skilled, I think the point is more importantly their responsibility. These people are working with very expensive equipment,and doing a job that has grave consequence if an error is made. People can easily be killed. It can be a stressful job, no one can deny that can they?
That level of responsibility is normally rewarded in one's salary.

Crane lads
The crane industry is the most unsociable job going. You can be away for 4 weeks and more at a time. Unsociable hours getting out of bed after 4hrs sleep after doing a 16hrs shift then doing another long shift. I love it

Crane lads
Yes some do have a van/camper Thay stay in its used for escorting heavy cranes because Thay are hallways traveling and no point getting in digs for say 2hrs then setting off to next job. But that's just heavy cranes not small cranes.

Crane lads
Reality check can I ask if you have operated a crane or are you part of the support team.

Ordinary bloke. I don't run a crane company I won the lotto so don't work just have a small consultancy company in California.

I have no hidden ahead but you would like to think I do, I just have a lot of experience in crane rental around the world and know from experience that crane operators in the UK are pampered and think they should be paid more no matter what they are paid.

They are so hard done by, my point is in life YOU choose what career to take if you don't like it Stop bitching and go and do something else. Life is short so if you are so highly skilled you will have no problem in re training for a job that pays more

Oh no you won't because crane operators spend most of their working day asleep in the cab

Ordinary bloke. I don't run a crane company I won the lotto so don't work just have a small consultancy company in California.

I have no hidden ahead but you would like to think I do, I just have a lot of experience in crane rental around the world and know from experience that crane operators in the UK are pampered and think they should be paid more no matter what they are paid.

They are so hard done by, my point is in life YOU choose what career to take if you don't like it Stop bitching and go and do something else. Life is short so if you are so highly skilled you will have no problem in re training for a job that pays more

Oh no you won't because crane operators spend most of their working day asleep in the cab

Ordinary Bloke
I was pointing out the RESPONSIBILITY factor !

You run a crane rental company, we see exactly what your up to, lining your own pocket off the back's of us Crane Operators. you think because the Crane Operator going to be on a higher rate of pay, your going to be on less, therefore you are going to have to put your costs up to keep your lifestyle.


RESPONSIBILITY.

Tmayes
Its ok Reality check i know I'm the bigger man in more ways than one, i enjoy standing up for my fellow crane operators against people like you, the old saying goes "if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything"
I don't need to know who you are because after reading your comments i know exactly what you are.
any way its been a pleasure but iv got to try and get some beauty sleep incase the TV crew turns up, you never know do you??

ghost
Reality check

I used the 500 tonner as an analogy - what you fail to realise is that the 10 day cpcs course teaches you to pass a test - once you've passed the test, you learn to become a crane operator. Further - your points about the pay are based on supposition - until someone from Ainscough comes forward with the REAL details of pay scales, how they are paid etc you should maybe zip it as you are only inflaming what appears to be a very emotive subject. Earlier, you picked up on crane monkey's grammatical error - you used the word realize, not realise and also mentioned about $13.75 - this would lead me to think you're American......and we all know what the American crane safety record is like......because it's always the tree's fault when an American crane falls over.......until you know the full facts, I would suggest you keep your over inflated opinions to yourself - opinions are like ar$3holes - everyone has one. Unfortunately, you seem to talk a lot but actually say very little.......over to you Mr Mayes!

At least we only see your name on here LOL

Don't be so touchy I hear television always makes you look bigger

And how do you know you've had better people insult you when you don't know who I am. Just another thick comment from a crane operator LOL

stick to radio next time

Tmayes
if the only way you can get your argument across is personal insults then crack on because iv had bigger and better people insult me than you, And at least i have the balls to put myself out there by using my real name on here.

Tristam Mayes.

Who said unskilled maybe you should read what I put rather than watching yourself on TV !!

I said crane operators have important jobs but not as important as they actually believe they are.

The last time I looked I never saw a Doctor or other skilled labour sleeping in a Mercedes sprinter and cooking out of the back of the van thinking that was good.

You have all made a rod for your own back and now you want to be called highly skilled. " don't make me and the millions of people that saw you on TV LAUGH!!!!"

LOL

Tmayes
Good evening guys and girls,
after reading some of these comments, especially reality checks about us crane operators i have to say i have never heard so much bo**oks come from one guy, the Ainscough crane operators are not asking for a stupid amount of money they are asking what is owed to them, a few years ago they had a 60pence pay cut to help the company over the worse of the recision and have been trying to catch up ever since. crane drivers are highly skilled in what they do, if you have a unskilled worker on a crane things go wrong very quickly which you can see from many of the accidents from countries with unskilled trained operators on cranes, nobody has said they are in the league of doctors or surgeons and they are not asking to be paid like them either. iv been on jobs before where a guy pushing a barrow has been on more than the crane op.
I worked for ainscough and what the company fails to recognise is they have some of the best APs, best operators and best fitters in the industry but sadly as a lot of the high ranking managers are not from this industry they aint got a clue what they have till its gone and thats when the MD won't be getting his massive bonus anymore.

As for Cranec*nts comment right at the bottom about ainscough operators and how when ever he had a ainscough operator its been disappointing as they have moaned i can't do that or i can't set up there, maybe you should be looking into how the site of yours is run? you will always get 1 operator within a company thats a bad egg but if many are turning up with the same problem then maybe you are the problem.

Ordinary Bloke

Lets not get carried away, Crane Operators jobs are important but in every persons world their job is just as important.

However lets clarify, If everyjob is done correctly the operator is only part of a "safe system of work" which includes the AP, CS, Slinger and other personnel working to a pre determined method statement and risk assesment.

Therefore If everyone follows the method statement and it has been planned by a fully trained and competent Appointed Person then why would you think its the same as a Doctor ?

If there are useless personnel then thats a different argument and not related to what an operator gets paid, lets not cloud the issue claiming that you want more money to make it safer because that never works, people on more money are not always safer employees.

For the record I have been in Crane Rental for a very long time and hold various qualifications probably a lot higher than yours so I am perfectly placed to comment as I have been on both sides of the fence and see both sides of the story.

You claim to be an Ordinary Bloke well you should be able to comprehend the difference between a skilled Doctor and a Crane Operator every body else can

Ordinary Bloke
You talk about what a doctor is being a skilled worker, that would be right, it's about the responsibility, he is in a life or death position.

A Crane Operator is in the same position, especially with the useless personnel calling themselves professional, they make me laugh.
It's the Crane Operator who takes up the slack, and gets the job done even when surrounded by Idiots !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RESPONSIBILITY !!!!!!!!! It's the pressure, the stress and often long hours taking up the slack because of incompetence of others!!!!!

If you want to talk about our job you first have to UNDERSTAND it!

Stop commenting on things you know nothing about!!!!!!!!!

Go and get a job in a corner shop, as that sounds about the stretch of your comprehension on the subject !!!!!!!

Big Joe
I've read through previous comments and am interested in what the Ainscough crane drivers / operators and their union have actually demanded from Ainscough. The percentage increases offered along with the additional depot bonus and holiday enhancement appear very reasonable considering the current financial climate. If you could shed light on this I'd be grateful...

Crane lads
Tour 1 we at ainscough get £30 lodge and £15 meal that's for breakfast lunch and evening meal. Yes sometimes ainscough get the digs then we just get the £15 meal allowance.

Ghost

When did I say a 500 tonne on luffer oh yes I didn't. However as well you all know you can sit a 10 day course and get a red CPCS trained operator card that lasts 2 years

At that point you can get a job on a crane and I know operators that have done exactly that. Given that CPCS don't have category sizes there is nothing to stop that happening.

And the fact that you know that and still question it reiterates my point of intelligence in regard to what you are paid.

It's so funny that Crane Operators think they are highly skilled workers. So what's a doctor ? A highly highly highly highly skilled worker ??

Get in the real world. You are paid what you are worth and in basic economics you can't be paid more than the company can afford.

The coal miners and Liverpool dockers tried that and look where it got them

If you don't like what you are paid go and get a different job that pays more money. Nobody breaks into your house every morning and forces you to be a crane operator. Go and be something else after all you are all "highly skilled workers"

Tour 1
Hey lads some of us would love to get what they are paid. some of us get £40 night and sort your own digs. not get hotel sorted and paid ( £70 )and no quibbling. £15 meal not a tenner Get real

Ordinary Bloke
Hi Crane Lads, i have not had any bad experience with Ainscough, if in any way inadvertently or in any other way came across in this manner, it was Not intended and i apologize whole heartedly. I was just trying to put certain aspects of our job that the wider public and people in the industry don't understand.

I would like to see these people whom ask all these favours from the operator, go and see about getting a job on a crane and actually experience the Numb brain people we encounter.
We the operators, really do not have to interact after the paperwork is done, because there are people employed " Appointed Persons " who should already have visited the site, determined what All the requirements necessary to do the job. But you can bet your bottom dollar there will be some obstacle overlooked and low and behold some sort of supervisor will come and ask if he can, "WHATEVER".
The crane operator is not allowed to get involved in this process, as he will become involved with the slinging or whatever the supervisor is asking. The problem is if something was to go wrong the supervisor will point the finger at the operator, and he/she will probably have witnesses to confirm this.

So to all you would be riggers, slinger, signalers out there look to the Appointed Person in the future, Please!

Actual Reality Check
The Company (Ainscough Crane Hire Ltd) has refused to accept the points raised in our reasonable pay claim.

Instead, they have embarked on a mission to replace our “Professional, Skilled Crane Operators” along with their terms & conditions, with more “Zero Hours Contract” based Operators on the following terms;

• No guaranteed weekly hours
• Paid only for hours worked.

This means that those working under these contracts do so on a casual basis.

• Contracted to work from “any” depot – with NO payment for travel time.
• If working an average 5 day week – 24 days holiday per year, which is less than the Working Time Regulations minimum (28).
• Not paid when “winded off” (i.e. if the weather conditions make working unsafe, and the Operator, using their knowledge and skills, ceases work, then they will not receive any pay for that period).
• Not paid if work ceases due to unforeseen circumstances.


For example, an employee who works under these terms, is faced with the prospect of not being paid if they, or a site safety officer, halts the work due to dangerous conditions.

We believe that this could lead to circumstances where the individual, because of this, would be likely to work on – so that they can ensure that they will be paid in full for all hours worked.

We believe that to operate under such draconian terms places these Operatives at risk of injury, not only to themselves, but others working on site.

• Our Crane Operatives are “Highly Skilled”, “Safety Motivated”, Professional drivers and operators of highly technical pieces of machinery.

• These valuable and essential skills should be rewarded with a package consisting of a decent hourly rate, aligned to class-leading terms & conditions, and not the draconian terms being offered.

• Our Crane Operators deserve to be treated with dignity & respect, and not with the continued threat of “Redundancy” then replacement by those on inferior terms.

• We have seen recently, individual members selected as redundant, only to be contacted soon after, and offered a job on a “Zero Hours” “Casual” basis.

This cannot be right.

• Our members are fighting – NOT out of greed – but to protect the high level of safety awareness in the industry.

Please take a few seconds to consider the content of the Zero Hours Contracts and ask yourself if it could ever be considered just and right – for such terms & conditions to become the norm, in a Safety Critical Environment such as the Construction Sector?

The Construction Sector is already one of the most dangerous Occupational Sectors in the Industrial Landscape.

We cannot allow some rogue employers to undo the excellent work that has been carried out in improving Site Health and Safety.

We refuse to stand aside and allow Health and Safety to slide back to the times of the 19th Century.

Crane lads
cranec#nt you have had a bad experience every time you have a crane off us if that's true I apologise on behalf of the operators who have never been on you're site and met you. can you please explain a bit more.

Ordinary Bloke
Crane Operator,

I am glad to see Ainscough Operators and other personnel related to the Ainscough company at last taking action.
I have been in the job now for 25 and more years, back then in the year 1990 i worked for a company called Rigblast, we were payed 4 to hours per hire depending on the size of the crane the customer desired. I did not have to do hardly any overtime, it was a great job and was earning about £440 take home pay every week.

Now 25 years on, i have an hourly rate of £14.50, feel pushed into working every hour god sends as i you don't you will be victimized, given all the bad hires and eventually pushed out the door.
The victimization carries on even when on the job.
I don't think £14.50 is enough for that treatment, and all the other responsibilities you have to take in to account. Like when you arrive at a site with the machine, you don't get welcomed in, instantly your are frowned upon and you can see the people who are there sussing you out as if they are able to bully you into doing more than what is on the Lift Plan and Method Statement, they think you are being awkward if where they tell you where to site the crane, you see a hazard, and point it out to them. That is actually me and many like me doing my job, and doing the customer a Favour.

it goes on like that pretty much every hire, and still a lot of companies who hire the crane Do Not have any paperwork, the operator is pressurized into doing things with no back up from the depot manager, in fact you are put under that amount of pressure it will put you off your work after a certain amount of time.

Do Joiners and all these other trades persons have to put up with this Bullying, i don't think so!
We operators are only human, we only want what we are due, no more no less.

Crane lads
cranec#nt you have had a bad experience every time you have a crane off us if that's true I apologise on behalf of the operators who have never been on you're site and met you. can you please explain a bit more.

Reality check

You see you have just reiterated one of the main problems ,

That the likes of you and the Ainscough hierarchy can't see past a simple grammatical error which I made and ridicule the "uneducated " crane operators

Perhaps if these companies saw there employees as the backbone of the company you and them would understand where the Ainscough lads are coming from with there expectations

I certainly wouldn't want to be on the end of anything bigger than a chain block with a brand new operator !!

Crane lads
Reality Check we do have trackers in our cranes and we do leave the yard at the right time let's say we have to be on site at 5am and its 2hrs travel we really do set off at 3am or we don't get paid the travel time.

ghost
Reality check thinks he can do a 10 day course and then be competent enough to operate a 500 tonner on full luffer - how many qualified banksmen would work the hook on his crane??

Crane lads
Reality Check. Some do some don't book it not all operators are the same.

Crane lads. Totally agree on 20 minutes of checks before you leave the yard but you should only be paid for hours actually worked. That's what operators should agree on that way your hourly rate would go up. Operators steal hours and that's a fact and why rates don't go up.

Crane monkey. You may be able to speak about the 10 day "CPCS" course but surely CITB would be using it to justify. "THEIR" existence not "THERE". I rest my case LOL

Crane lads
The is no trust because of the way we have been treated before in the bad times we took a 60p cut to help them through the bad times. On the understanding we get it back when things pickup. surprise surprise we never got it back. The next one Thay give us guaranteed 8hrs on site plus travel time. Surprise surprise Thay took that back that's why we have no trust. so I say to Mr oaktree and Robin let's all get back to the table and sort this mess out before a good company is lost. Yes robin you should be at the meeting.

Crane lads
Travel time are based on 20mph in the travel time you have to do all you're daily checks that can take 20 minutes before you leave the yard.

Reality check

I could start a discussion about being a crane operator in 10 days if you like , it takes ten days to get a ticket that does not make you a crane operator it just provides the CITB with a means to justify there existence !!!

Of course the other side can be told on here, One sided views that are only allowed to be published if vertikal want them to be.

Funny I wonder how many Ainscough or other crane company paid hours are taken up by operators posting needless comments on here lol.

Crane monkey. The 10.00 per hour was used as an example even a monkey could figure that out !!

Crane operators are semi skilled. There's no college course or uni course just a 10 day crane course and then nvq. The same cannot be said for joiners etc. You can't be a joiner in 10 days

Operators and unions should wake up

Actual Reality Check
2 sides to every story - unfortunately the other side can't be told on here without risk of repercussion......

Reality check

But its quite obvious that the companies are aware of your last rate systems indeed I am also and this is the reason why an hour system ent the reason companies pay minimum 10 hours to keep the inflated overtime rates down

I.e why pay 27.50 an hour at double time when we can pay 20.00

The problem being in the UK is one of hire are ridiculously low thus not giving the hire companies the finances to be able to pay us what wrarptuse are worth

For your information I too have been on both sides of the fence and management positions are so underpaid I had to revert back to bring hands on

Also who gets away with paying anyone 10.00 per hour

Oh on the contrary crane monkey I have been on both sides of the fence and can say from nearly 30 years experience that operators have been paid too low for all of that time, but and its a big BUT you have all been guilty of your own demise.

The difference between all the trades you mention is that they don't fill a time sheet in every day that doesn't reflect what they have actually worked. All too often operators work 8 hours and get paid for 10 ( 2 at time and a half ) therefore 11 hours

For example. If your rate is 10 per hour you should have been paid 80 pounds but you get paid 110. If you actually booked 8 hours you could have an hourly rate of $13.75 with no extra cost to the company.

Why don't you all think smarter and agree to only being paid for the hours you work and you would probably get the 5%. Stop thinking like a crane operator and think like a business man you might actually realize you are wrong

By the way I'm not employed by Ainscough

Unfortunately because Ainscough is no longer a crane firm and just a cash cow for investors the guys there are fighting a loosing battle

But good luck to you all

Reality check

You really are not from a hands on back ground and should try to understand what the job is that we actually do .

1 Specialist transport driver

2 rigger

3 skilled plant operative

4 everybody else's eyes on site

5 diplomat

You see crane driver is a multi skilled role and we do not get anywhere near the hourly rate that all of these individual roles which encompass the job should richly deserve .

Engineers carpenters steel erectors would laugh at our rates if they only new

Yes we earn a good living but pro rata to hours and job roles it is a pittance

How about the crane companies stand up united to customers to put the rates up to where they should be and then we can all be paid at a rate which fits the role ???

Looks like a lot of people agree with me, operators in the UK have always complained they don't get paid enough but in reality the steal hours each and every week, if they didn't then their hourly rate would be probably 50% higher not 5%.

If I owned Ainscough I would put a tracker in every crane and pay to what the tracker said. That way when operators book leaving the yard at 5am they would actually have to be out of bed and in the crane at that time not still at home on pay.

Operators in the UK only have themselves to blame,

Big Jib
Will this spell the end for Robin Richardson?

He's not liked or respected by staff and his sheer arrogance has led to this dispute.

Ive got a great idea operators, when it takes 2 hours to drive somewhere don't book 3, when it takes 1/2 hr don't book 1 hour. When you leave site at 3pm don't book 4:30. " oh it's ok mate I get paid for 8 hours anyway so I'll just book to 4:30"

Why don't you all just get back to work, nobody forces you to be crane operators or to work for Ainscough. If you don't like your pay go and get a different job.

Remember the unions closed the docks, the coal mines etc. Striking should be against the law, just an excuse for lazy people to get paid for more than they do

Grumpy
Looks like there is some gangrene in this workforce. I can't believe what I read.
These guys need to count their blessings and remember that these demands will create the need to raise hire prices which makes the company less competitive. This makes jobs less secure. The owners have invested a fortune in this business and deserve a return on their investment. "Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind." I can see the owners digging their heels in to prevent this eternal cycle going on and on. For everyone's sake common sense needs to prevail.

Grumpy
Looks like there is some gangrene in this workforce. I can't believe what I read.
These guys need to count their blessings and remember that these demands will create the need to raise hire prices which makes the company less competitive. This makes jobs less secure. The owners have invested a fortune in this business and deserve a return on their investment. "Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind." I can see the owners digging their heels in to prevent this eternal cycle going on and on. For everyone's sake common sense needs to prevail.

Tour 1
strike in the 70s 3 weeks no pay. went back to work on original offer less than final offer

cranec#nt
Not meaning to be cheeky but, why do they think they deserve a pay rise? When all me experiences with ainscough operators have been bad and disappointing. They turn up on site thinking they are the big I Am and all you get is oh I cant do that or I cant set up there. How does that justify a pay rise???!!!

Crane expert
I see somebody has disliked this, I wonder if that's Mr Richardson.

Crane expert
Dear Mr Ricardson
I think it's been long enough you holding quality operators to ransom, the bully boy tactics you and your team employ over your hard working drivers has to stop. Ainscough lost many good operators and staff last year to rival companies and every time your name was mentioned, it has to stop now for Ainscough to survive.
Ainscough as a company is very profitable and it's only profitable because of the hard work of the staff out doing to work.
Maybe if you tried to connect with your workforce instead of sitting in your ivory tower making up silly social media rules this strike action wouldn't be happening.
Maybe it's time for a change and a massive change in company attitude from the top.