A UK police force has raised a potential issue regarding obstructed vision caused by a hook block attached to the front bumper pintle hook, when travelling on the road.
Here is the post:
CPA, the UK crane association has raised this in a letter to members and is seeking feedback on this issue. Here is the letter:
Dear Member
We have been made aware of a post from earlier this month, on the Facebook page of the Lancashire Police Specialist Operations Commercial Vehicle Team, in relation to forward visibility and their latest aid in improving road safety.
Please see the full Facebook post from Lancashire Police, with the related photos, above.
Following this, we are aware that there have been some instances of police forces operating across the M6 corridor area, taking an increased interest in the stowage of hooks on mobile cranes – especially the forward visibility from the chassis cab.
We are keen to hear firsthand from members, whether they have been stopped in recent weeks by police, and what justification / actions have been taken by the police as a result of these stops.
To be clear, we are not aware of any new legislation coming into effect regarding the traditional stowage methods of hook blocks on mobile cranes during public highway transit, but we are concerned that the police at a local level, might well be looking to increase operations in stopping the legitimate movement of operators due to this issue.
We are keen to see if there has been an increase in these stops by the police which goes against well-established practices undertaken by the industry.
All responses will be treated on a strictly confidential basis.
Best wishes,
Chris Cassley, Rob Squires, David Smith
Construction Plant-hire Association [email protected]
Vertikal Comment
While raising concerns and potential risk points, such as this is usually a good thing, this one is a little disingenuous as the crane would be moving as would the pedestrian, so the forward view would constantly be changing, and the hook block only hides a slim area of view, as to a lesser extent do the front window pillars in a vehicle.
Freddie is also only 50 or 60cm wide at most, and in the test appears to be rotated slightly, which probably reduces the visible area a little. Most children are wider than this, and when running take up even more space. And there are likely to be more than one.
The post seems to suggest that an incident has actually occurred, but the reference is either hypothetical or if a real case the prosecution was for driving with obscured vision. This comes across like a 'jobsworth' looking for additional things that they might catch people for, no matter how low the risk or unlikely an incident would be.
Once again it is good to flag such potential issues and seek input and feedback, but not in this manner which seems to be more about 'booking' someone, than being concerned about real safety and traffic issues.
Mr John Tominay
Just another way for the police to harass the general public and make more money. All the crane drivers I know are professional and responsible. I would like Lancashire police to publish the stats on how many children or pedestrians have been run over by a crane in this way. The police wonder why they don’t have the support of some of the general public. 🤷♂️
They abound
Can't be any worse than windscreen mounted satnavs and dashcams, Vehicles are full of blind spots, and drivers get used to it. Just because a young copper can't comprehend beyond what they perceive as H & S, doesn't make it wrong.
Lewis Major
This issue will become a thing of the past very quickly, the onset of AI powered 360deg camera monitoring and warning systems, Lieberr's new pedestrian warning systems and camera systems will spot "Freddy" a mile off, maybe not a mile but you get my drift.
The one thing i will say re these systems is driver information overload.. I was in a new direct vision compliant lorry the other day and in London with cyclists every where the contant noise and flashing lights from the system was starting to piss me right off and I was a passenger.
Fenster
Has anyone got figures for accidents caused by lack of vision due to a front hanging hook block, especially with young children ? I believe that we, as an industry should be concentrating on the real risks and issues instead of giving time to a very unplausible situation for likes on Facebook
Red
Many years ago the California Dept. of Transportation decreed that any mobile crane traveling the highways was to be configured so that any part of the crane forward of the front bumper be seven foot off the ground. Thus hookblocks and headache balls could not be tied up to the front bumper. All the cranes back then were half cabs, not full width cabs.
We welded two eyes on the carrier frame ahead of the upper. We put a notch in the boom cradle with a roller. We would then boom up tight, lower the hooks and tie them off to the two eyes. Then we would boom down keeping the cables snug, into the cradle running the cables into the notch , on the roller. The boom ended up horizontal on the cradle, the cables running horizontal alongside the half cab, thru the notch down to the block and ball which were secured on the deck.
This procedure gave us the required clearance in front with no visual obstructions, although it took a little more time when arriving to a job and leaving a job.
LTD
It’s a genuine problem that needs addressing, if cranes need to store or transport hook blocks another way then so be it. The protection of the general public should always be a top priority!
vertikal editor
A fair point TheFlux77, it was not our intention to dismiss the issue, more to point out weaknesses in process, and the fact that higher risks are being ignored. But way more important than this is that those in the industry - not just in the UK - contribute to the debate. Not necessarily here - but to the CPA (or other national associations) that is calling for input on this subject. Pemby also makes a good point on realities of this pracice.
Thank you
Pemby
On the one hand, a lot of the larger cranes hooks generally show them without in several road travel configs, tho not all, such as >~12t axle configuration, most new cranes don't even have stowage for hooks elsewhere on the machine.
TheFlux77
The 'Vertikal Comment' seems quick to dismiss the issue and risk, when the risk is genuine, and across construction sector plant and vehicle incidents are always high on the chart for causes of fatalities. If a child, teenager, son or daughter was killed on a pedestrian crossing due to this issue, would it be dismissed as quickly and what would the reporting say?
CPA, the crane industry should be considering this, and understanding what can be done, it shouldn't be the police taking the first steps to address the issue when it is obvious and known. Engage and get on the front foot, rather than dismiss and call someone a 'jobs worth' who's very role is to keep people safe on the road networks.
After each fatality, 'Vertikal' calls for and asks for the industry to learn and share, maybe it can be before an incident occurs as well?
Mr John Tominay
Just another way for the police to harass the general public and make more money. All the crane drivers I know are professional and responsible. I would like Lancashire police to publish the stats on how many children or pedestrians have been run over by a crane in this way. The police wonder why they don’t have the support of some of the general public. 🤷♂️
They abound
Can't be any worse than windscreen mounted satnavs and dashcams, Vehicles are full of blind spots, and drivers get used to it. Just because a young copper can't comprehend beyond what they perceive as H & S, doesn't make it wrong.
Lewis Major
This issue will become a thing of the past very quickly, the onset of AI powered 360deg camera monitoring and warning systems, Lieberr's new pedestrian warning systems and camera systems will spot "Freddy" a mile off, maybe not a mile but you get my drift.
The one thing i will say re these systems is driver information overload.. I was in a new direct vision compliant lorry the other day and in London with cyclists every where the contant noise and flashing lights from the system was starting to piss me right off and I was a passenger.
Crane lads
Some liebherr cranes you have to have a block over the front to level out the axle loads. How will that work?
Fenster
Has anyone got figures for accidents caused by lack of vision due to a front hanging hook block, especially with young children ? I believe that we, as an industry should be concentrating on the real risks and issues instead of giving time to a very unplausible situation for likes on Facebook
Red
Many years ago the California Dept. of Transportation decreed that any mobile crane traveling the highways was to be configured so that any part of the crane forward of the front bumper be seven foot off the ground. Thus hookblocks and headache balls could not be tied up to the front bumper. All the cranes back then were half cabs, not full width cabs.
We welded two eyes on the carrier frame ahead of the upper. We put a notch in the boom cradle with a roller. We would then boom up tight, lower the hooks and tie them off to the two eyes. Then we would boom down keeping the cables snug, into the cradle running the cables into the notch , on the roller. The boom ended up horizontal on the cradle, the cables running horizontal alongside the half cab, thru the notch down to the block and ball which were secured on the deck.
This procedure gave us the required clearance in front with no visual obstructions, although it took a little more time when arriving to a job and leaving a job.
Maybe something like this could be a solution.
LTD
It’s a genuine problem that needs addressing, if cranes need to store or transport hook blocks another way then so be it. The protection of the general public should always be a top priority!
vertikal editor
A fair point TheFlux77, it was not our intention to dismiss the issue, more to point out weaknesses in process, and the fact that higher risks are being ignored. But way more important than this is that those in the industry - not just in the UK - contribute to the debate. Not necessarily here - but to the CPA (or other national associations) that is calling for input on this subject. Pemby also makes a good point on realities of this pracice.
Thank you
Pemby
On the one hand, a lot of the larger cranes hooks generally show them without in several road travel configs, tho not all, such as >~12t axle configuration, most new cranes don't even have stowage for hooks elsewhere on the machine.
TheFlux77
The 'Vertikal Comment' seems quick to dismiss the issue and risk, when the risk is genuine, and across construction sector plant and vehicle incidents are always high on the chart for causes of fatalities. If a child, teenager, son or daughter was killed on a pedestrian crossing due to this issue, would it be dismissed as quickly and what would the reporting say?
CPA, the crane industry should be considering this, and understanding what can be done, it shouldn't be the police taking the first steps to address the issue when it is obvious and known. Engage and get on the front foot, rather than dismiss and call someone a 'jobs worth' who's very role is to keep people safe on the road networks.
After each fatality, 'Vertikal' calls for and asks for the industry to learn and share, maybe it can be before an incident occurs as well?
Crane lads
Lancashire Police are always pulling cranes easy target.